26: The Wisdom Of Your Body And The Rosen Method With Marjorie Huebner

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Hello and welcome back to mystical sisterhood. This is

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your host Maureen Spielman. Today Marjorie Huebner joins me

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to talk about an exquisite form of healing work called the Rosen

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method. When a dear friend's daughter suggested Marjorie and

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I talk I was all in discovering healing modalities that are not

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yet on my radar is so full of possibilities. Join us today to

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lean into Marjorie's wisdom and knowledge on all things the

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Rosen method, and so much more. See you in the episode.

Maureen Spielman: 00:00:33

Hey there, welcome to mystical sisterhood.

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This is your host, Maureen Spielman. I started the show to

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highlight the intuitives, healers and other courageous

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women that I've met along my journey and continue to meet.

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Through amazing interviews, I seek to ask insightful questions

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to uncover ways in which you the listener can apply the wisdom

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and knowledge to your own life. I believe that we're all in this

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together. So sharing healing and joy, and bringing community

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together is both my passion and purpose. If you'd like to learn

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more about the mystical sisterhood community I'm

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building, please visit www mystical sisterhood.com See you

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in the episode.

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Welcome back to mystical sisterhood. And welcome

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to Marjorie, I'm, I'm beyond thrilled that you're here with

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me. We became connected through my dear friend Nani and her

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daughter, Christine. And

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I just love how the universe brings people together. I'm

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fascinated by your work. And so we'll dive in today, I'll just

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say to the audience that you're a practitioner of the Rosen

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method. So we're going to learn all about that something that

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aside from our conversation a week or two ago, it wasn't part

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of my world. So right there, that could be the whole podcast.

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But just

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you have a lot of wisdom to share and a lot of wisdom about

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becoming centered, becoming heart centric, learning about

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how our body speaks to us, and so much more. So welcome,

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Marjorie, so glad to have you, thank you marine really

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appreciate having this opportunity. Because it's

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unusual.

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For people who don't know a lot about the Rosen

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method, so I'm happy to share about it. And just to clarify,

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it has two parts. It has a movement part and a touch body

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where, okay, beautiful. Well, I want to dive into all of that

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your background, with the body is fascinating. I don't know

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where you want to start with your story, and how you came to

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this work. But I always just say to my guest, wherever you want

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to start that makes sense to you to how you were led to being a

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body work practitioner and expert.

Marjorie Huebner: 00:02:59

Well, I don't know about expert, but I, I do.

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I want to start a long time ago, 50 years ago, in high

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school,

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I was drawn to a presentation of dancers. And I thought, oh, I

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want to it was through an urban arts program where you got to

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study with the artist in the community. And he went, took a

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bus away from school and then back to school. And these

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dancers really thought I want to be in my body, I want to learn

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more about movement. So I did that for when I started when I

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was 17, which is an old age to start dancing really. But I

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realized I think that I wasn't a performer. I studied dance for

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about 10 years actually, and did some performing but realized I

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was more interested in the connection between people and

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improvisation in the sensing of each other in space. So I

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started to study body work. And I started with massage and

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energy work, just exploring all kinds of touch work. And then

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I realized that people's tension wasn't getting better, that I

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was trying to fix it from the outside. And so I thought, well,

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there must be a better way. So just following the thread of my

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own practice touching people the privilege, really, of touching a

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lot of people in this intimate way.

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brought me to be curious about well, how could this tension

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that people are holding change? Is there some other way to do

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it? So I started to explore different kinds of hakomi.

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And I found Rosen body work because it had a movement

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component which of course I've been a dancer. And

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this hands on component. Yeah. And so Marianne

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Rosen was a physical therapist and she started touching people

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in a certain way that brought out people's the worries that

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brought up people's emotions that

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seemed to have a way to get inside underneath the

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holding. And what was that holding doing for people? Right?

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That was her, her curiosity. And that fit perfectly in what my

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question was, well, what what is this holding all about the

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muscle tension, what's going on there. So, I want to just talk a

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little bit about Marianne Rosen, because I think her background

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really helps know why she was so interested in that in a way. And

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that she was born in 1914, in Germany. And she was a pretty,

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you know, a young woman during when, when the Nazis were in

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control of Germany. And she was not a practicing Jew, her

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family, family wasn't.

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But she had Jewish ancestors. And so she was considered

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Jewish. And she's told the story and one of the intensives

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pensive trainings and I worked with her, she said, You know, I

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grew up and it would say, June verboten on the window, the

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store window, and that meant Jews forbidden.

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And she said, you know, no one should be forbidden without

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being known. And so there was something about her knowing how

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important it was to be seen and known for who you truly are. And

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that's the base of her work. So the touch is trusting that each

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person has their own knowing and wisdom. And

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if we can, if they can live from that, if they can feel that and

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know that not just from their heads, but from a deep knowing

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and their bodies, that they can actually relax? Well, um, I just

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want to remark on both your journey to the Rosen method, and

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then something that came up for her is just that following you

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had that it felt like a really intuitive question around. Why

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are people not letting go of their attention? What's going on

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here? There must be something more, leading you down that path

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of just maybe trying these different avenues. I think it's

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remarkable how each of us has what will speak to us and it's

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got to be related to what our purpose is and what our unique

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gifts are. Right. But then that also was true for it was Marian

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Rosen, and that she knew she from a young age that she wanted

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to know more about people to tap into their being seen, based on

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her experience. It's so beautiful. Well, I think too,

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you know, she wasn't able to go to university because she was

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Jewish. And so her mother who was a kind of Bohemian person

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hooked her up with

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the Gustaf and

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good stuff. The good stuff, hire started the hires goofed off

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hire was a union analyst and his wife was a body breath, touch

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person. And they combined the work the early mind body work in

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the 30s in Germany. And so she was exposed to this idea that

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when people had a sense of their body that they did better

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emotionally. It was early in her experience, and then she left

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Germany, she had to leave Germany as a Jew and escaped to

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came to the United States. And I think that stayed with her,

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right. Somehow that early experience. So yeah. And

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I think for me, too, I had my own tension. Right. So healer,

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heal thyself, my journey. My own curiosity. Yes. Yeah. And I

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realized that people

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weren't other massage therapists weren't always getting the same

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response I was getting, I was touching people, and they would

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have emotions, or they would tell me stories about their

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life, or they would reveal things. So I needed to find a

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way to how to how to how to do deal with that when I was, you

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know, yes, them. And yeah, so Rosen method really has that.

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Okay, well, I was gonna ask you just a question for the

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listeners sort of background. So I think when we met, you know,

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just recently, I was saying, Are we moving into the age of the

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body, like where we're really there's been research out there

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for, for quite some time, some very foundational books written

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about like the Body Keeps the Score.

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I'm sure you have a lot that you've read and really have

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become important to you. But can you kind of talk about just how,

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how the body holds on to past experiences, emotions and that

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kind of background work before you tell us about how touch

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releases it.

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I'd like to start with babies.

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Right? I'm not a mother but I have

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nephews and I

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studied a lot about some about developmental movement and how

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the first really thing a baby needs to do is to yield right to

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be held. And to feel that ability to say, Oh, I'm safe,

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there's a, there's a way to protect when they're out of the,

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you know, the womb, there's a container for that. And we don't

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think babies come with an agenda to like, manipulate us if

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they're hungry. They let us know if they need their diaper

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changed, and they're uncomfortable, they let us know.

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So it's a natural, this natural that they pay attention to their

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body, and the only they're helpless, pretty much so the

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only thing they can do is, is verbally protest. So as a

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parent, I'm guessing you figured out Oh, that, that that's a

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hungry cry. Yeah. And so when the mom feeds the baby,

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the baby can relax, and the mom can relax, that that's the need

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was met from the outside in. And so the baby learns, oh, that

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means when I'm hungry, later on, I know that sensation that that

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satisfies that sensation. Yeah, there's a direct relationship,

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right? But if we every time a baby cries, and we just feed

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them, they don't get to know Oh, I just want to be held or I need

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to be warmer, or they don't get to differentiate the sensation

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and the experience and integrate it. Okay, so maybe, you know,

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when

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we're need to be connected, we eat. Because that's, that's what

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was done for us rather than satisfy really meet the need

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there. Okay, so we don't we get confused. We don't really know,

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that sensation means I just need to cry because I got scared or,

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you know.

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So if that makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. And it's,

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yeah, it starts so pure, it starts so there's just a view

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needs to be held to be fed to be to feel connected, though. And

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it feels like from your description that there can be

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almost like, confusion, or mixed messages, I guess, is the word

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even it's on such a, you know, nonverbal level of things. But

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I've you know, read that and know that that that imprinting

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occurs in the first years of life. So it's very important to,

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to meet the needs. So in a way, that same meeting is what

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happens in Rosen. So here you are, here I am. And where we

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come together through the contact through the touch is a

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third place. It's a unique place of the meeting, what happens

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there? And that's where I bring my curiosity and invite you to

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come and what's it like to meet me?

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And there's no right and wrong about that. Maybe you don't want

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to meet me, maybe it's scary. And maybe I need to find another

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place to touch you or to give you a break from touch. I don't

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know. But we get to explore that meeting place.

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And the way that is different from massage, is that I don't

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try to change anything.

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I try.

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We're trying. So I meet I just meet you and see what happens.

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It feels like a an energetic meeting as well. The to it. Is

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that right? Like in terms of people's energy fields and

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coming to that place. That's always there. But we don't talk

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about energy, okay?

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Because we want to actually feel the sensations. And the

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sensations are, like we said, when I'm hungry, I know I will

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have a sensation, I'm hungry. So I eat or I'm tired. So I rest.

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So we want to start to explore what is that sensation.

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And we use words to because we want to speak from the body. We

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want to make it conscious, Oh, I feel a little tingling there.

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Where I feel some warp there. We start with sensation. So we can

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bypass thinking about things. stuff, you know, up here. Okay,

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so we want the bottom up processing we want to start with

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what do I know from sensing this connection?

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So sometimes it can heal, you know, developmental relational

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wounds because we explore what what it's like to be touched and

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so So, the people, the people will say, Oh, I feel comforted.

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Or, you know, or I feel supported. I'm not trying to

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support them. I'm not trying to comfort them. So what comes from

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their experience of the contact is what they needed. Yeah, yeah.

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And therein lies the healing part. do sometimes.

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People come in saying, Marjorie, I have a sensation and a

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particular part of my body.

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And or sometimes it's where you lay your hands that then they

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become in touch with the sensation and the information

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going on underneath it, right? I had a client has had a had right

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shoulder problems. And so yeah, I'm wondering if if it's, I

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asked permission, or where do you want to be touched for? So I

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really, it's about really respecting that. Starting with

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what's safe enough for people? Yeah. So that you may not go

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right to where the pain is, we might start, maybe we'll start

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somewhere else just to get used to each other, just start to

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have a connection. And what feels okay to that person. But

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yeah, sometimes people can really feel what's underneath,

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right? When there's the support or contact, and I'm listening.

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We call it meeting, and listening touch.

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I'm not trying to change anything, because you I want

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them I want you to feel what's there rather than bypass around

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or, which is what we learned to do, or hold whatever we needed

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to hold in there. Yeah.

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I feel like trust is a big word that's coming to mind for me,

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because

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we don't always have the opportunities to really learn

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how to trust when we're young. And so it's the rebuilding, and

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you're sharing about how respectful it is. And honoring

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to go to to be able to work with a person's body. I think you

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mentioned that into to have that sort of privilege.

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But it's so respectful, and the words body autonomy are coming

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to mind. And just having someone ask you, can I touch you?

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Because we do. I think as I've learned more about the body, I

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realized that,

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you know, we often are touched or it's it's evolving into a new

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space where it is our body? And I don't know that I think

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there's a lot around just that.

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Yeah, it is you have a right to say no.

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Right? Or yes to whatever contact you have. And

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it's so important, right to respect

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people's capacity for for that kind of contact. It might be

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really scary. There might have been abuse, and how do you

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really trust? Yeah, I don't want to be touched there, or that's

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enough. And, and to not take it personally. Right, as the

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practitioner, that they're having an experience that, you

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know, I'm not trying to hurt them, or I'm not hurting you.

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But it doesn't feel safe. It doesn't feel okay. We want to we

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want to honor what the experience is, and then keep

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exploring that further. Well, what, what wasn't? What isn't

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safe about that? Can be Yeah, yeah, I feel like there's a lot

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of exploration there, it reminds me of a massage I had recently.

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And you're helping me see that, at that particular time, I had

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had a flare up in a hip, an injury I never had before it was

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it was just in the muscle on my hip. And in the massage, I think

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the therapist was manipulating me the way that she almost like

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prescriptively thought would work for me, right. And it got

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to a point where it did tap into emotion, which a lot of people

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we don't even have that we've been so many disconnected from

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our mind, body, spirit, that we don't always connect that. I

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think in the past, I would have just been on the table like, Oh,

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I just had a wave of sadness, not knowing that the touch

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brought it apart. So there's a couple parts of that where I

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didn't, I didn't really have that kind of relationship.

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You're also talking about with your clients building

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relationships. And

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yeah, this therapists kind of just going in, but also, I don't

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know, I feel like even in that experience, if I went back to

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it,

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if that were to tap into a motion,

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allowing that allowing some space around it, allowing some

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time around it, in order to process it. And do Do you

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sometimes see to clients be like, whoa, whoa, when you tap

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into something that's a bit more informational, intense, strong

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feeling for them.

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Yeah, and yet, that's why they come. Yeah. Because that they

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want to provide a container for that. Yeah. Every emotion has a

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sensation and people don't always know that. They don't

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always know what is that sort of butterfly feeling? Is it

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excitement? Is it fear is a combination that we're not used

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to exploring? Yeah, sensation of emotion. So being able to stay

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with it with someone saying, yeah, yes, you're scared or Oh,

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you're sad. That's right. Can you just let that sense

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You shouldn't be there with my yummy. And so that's going to be

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particular to each person that comes to you to each to each

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individual out there on earth. So then it's a, it sounds like

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it's a really a process of you being a guide, and the

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intelligence coming up from them, but then it can kind of

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give, I feel like your clients a roadmap to kind of deciphering

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what does that mean, that's really valuable information? And

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maybe, maybe you don't have a story with it, maybe it's just

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feeling it's only feeling the emotion. Okay. Maybe there is

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there is a memory.

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And so there's no, maybe an image, there's no right or wrong

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about what comes or doesn't come. Some people want a story,

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they want to know why. And that's more of a head thing. So

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can we just let the body do what it does is it can process maybe

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it's like having tingling, or shaking or vibrating or, you

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know, just that the nervous system is processing it. We

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don't have to always know in our heads. Yeah. And sometimes it's

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scary for people these sensations, it's like, what is

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that all of a sudden, my legs are, you know, vibrating? Or,

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you know, it's so it's normalizing? Oh, this is how the

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body does. This is what our bodies do for us. They process

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things. And it's things that have been unconscious, right?

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Absolutely. Yeah, that's certainly we don't, we don't

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learn about our body's intelligence about what emotions

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really are, we just tend to have a name for them, kind of period.

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There might be a follow up question sometimes to what they

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mean to somebody. But yeah, that land of venturing into the body.

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And, you know, you can someone can be when you were talking

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about your early background, as a dancer, a dancer, that when

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you when individuals use their body in a physical way, you have

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a relationship with your body, but it doesn't always mean that

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you know how to decode how it speaks to you. Well, and also

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there's, you know, dancers have to look a certain way have to be

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thin, they have to, you know, there's there's all this

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pressure, right, and performing is different than feeling

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inside. Yeah. And, and following something inside it is and, and

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yet a performer, you don't want to just have them like, look

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good on the outside, you want to have something of them coming

Unknown: 00:22:32

through the movement as well. Yeah. Right. So it's not that

Unknown: 00:22:36

there's a separation with art, you know, but that wasn't I was

Unknown: 00:22:41

more interested in what was going on inside. And I'm an

Unknown: 00:22:45

introvert. So it makes sense. You know, I wasn't so much

Unknown: 00:22:47

interested in you know, performing. Yeah. And I think

Unknown: 00:22:51

that

Unknown: 00:22:53

that was something that was missing was that intimate

Unknown: 00:22:55

connection. And I knew how important it is to have someone

Unknown: 00:22:59

just be with me, non judgmentally, saying, I'm here

Unknown: 00:23:04

with you. Can you trust and feel what your need was? Or is right

Unknown: 00:23:10

now?

Unknown: 00:23:12

Yeah. And let it let it be there. And, yeah, take some

Unknown: 00:23:17

time. Yeah, it's spectacular.

Unknown: 00:23:21

It's kind of simple. It's like that baby, can I just respond to

Unknown: 00:23:25

the need there? As a caregiver and sometimes I can't, right?

Unknown: 00:23:31

Moms can't be perfect. Parents can't be perfect or whatever.

Unknown: 00:23:34

And it's okay. Babies are very resilient. You know, they don't

Unknown: 00:23:38

have to be respond to every minute, every second. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:23:42

Enough, it's like enough.

Unknown: 00:23:45

It feels like the dance though. When you are in communication

Unknown: 00:23:50

with the person on the table or in your room. Your team. It's

Unknown: 00:23:55

not teaching but it reminds me of the dance that we are meant

Unknown: 00:23:59

to be doing with each other as humans and relating to each

Unknown: 00:24:03

other in this in this giving and receiving sort of way. And what

Unknown: 00:24:07

a beautiful process to for someone to learn how to receive

Unknown: 00:24:15

and express as well.

Unknown: 00:24:17

However, it's meant to come through if it's through the

Unknown: 00:24:19

emotion through words. So you said that wrote movement I know

Unknown: 00:24:24

when you say

Unknown: 00:24:26

you said the Rosen method has movement, and what was the

Unknown: 00:24:29

second part of it, and the bodywork touch and the bodywork.

Unknown: 00:24:32

So what is the movement look like? Within so this was

Unknown: 00:24:37

a physical therapist. So she brilliantly took all the range

Unknown: 00:24:41

of motion exercises for the joints for physical therapy

Unknown: 00:24:44

and put it into a class and so it when there's more

Unknown: 00:24:48

proprioception in the joints, we have to know where our joints

Unknown: 00:24:51

are, because otherwise we want to don't want to hurt something.

Unknown: 00:24:53

So there's a lot more sensation in the joint. So when our joints

Unknown: 00:24:56

feel good, we kind of feel good. So there's a

Unknown: 00:25:00

Creating of synovial fluid with movement. So they're very

Unknown: 00:25:02

particular she's very particular about the movements. It's more

Unknown: 00:25:05

directed. And it's done to music. So it's kind of fun and

Unknown: 00:25:09

helps, you know, music kind of lights up, the whole brain kind

Unknown: 00:25:11

of makes it fun. And it's in a circle. It's community oriented.

Unknown: 00:25:15

It's not about

Unknown: 00:25:17

even though I'm leading, it's, it's about community. And so

Unknown: 00:25:21

it's just fun and easygoing, and it helps people open their

Unknown: 00:25:24

bodies. And because there are places where we've held, right,

Unknown: 00:25:29

and so it's another way to get feeling like I might say, what's

Unknown: 00:25:33

it like, when you open your I'm putting my arm to the side here?

Unknown: 00:25:39

The shoulder blade does drop down the back. Yeah, you know

Unknown: 00:25:42

that we might not feel that that's what happens when we move

Unknown: 00:25:44

our arm. So to get more of a sense of sensation, and movement

Unknown: 00:25:48

and connection, in that way to with people having fun.

Unknown: 00:25:53

Yeah, so that's the other part of the work. And it came, she

Unknown: 00:25:57

started doing the bodywork. Actually, her clients said, how

Unknown: 00:26:00

can we age gracefully and not have to come to physical

Unknown: 00:26:03

therapy? And she said, Well, let's do this. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 00:26:06

That's what comes to mind when you talk about the movement part

Unknown: 00:26:09

of it, because

Unknown: 00:26:11

we, in America, I feel like, you know, sports are prevalent when

Unknown: 00:26:17

we're young, and it's always pushed the body and what are you

Unknown: 00:26:19

going to do for your workout, your workout, you're going to

Unknown: 00:26:22

lift weights, all the good, good things. And, and but backing up

Unknown: 00:26:27

and learning. I mean, both parts of the Rosen method teach us

Unknown: 00:26:32

about our body, about what it feels like. And I when I think

Unknown: 00:26:36

about even my aging parents, my mom had a poly miasma.

Unknown: 00:26:42

rheumatica I think it was called the PMR. And then my, which was

Unknown: 00:26:45

joint pain, and then my dad had Parkinson's and just a how, even

Unknown: 00:26:51

for probably across a lot of diagnoses, things that are

Unknown: 00:26:56

showing up at the body, the these really just softer,

Unknown: 00:27:00

gentler learning what you need movements are part of being in

Unknown: 00:27:05

our body more. Well, his life. I mean, if we're not moving, we're

Unknown: 00:27:09

dead. Basically, you know, when we die, we stopped moving. And

Unknown: 00:27:11

if you've ever been with someone who's died, they're not they're

Unknown: 00:27:14

not there. So just even the movement of the breath, I mean,

Unknown: 00:27:18

just movement of the cell. Cell membranes are making sure I

Unknown: 00:27:21

mean, we are about movement, life is about moving. And so

Unknown: 00:27:26

same thing with that body tension. It's not moving. Right?

Unknown: 00:27:30

We had to not move something. Because it was too painful.

Unknown: 00:27:33

There wasn't support to feel it. Yeah. So all those things,

Unknown: 00:27:37

right? How have, you know,

Unknown: 00:27:42

put our bodies into a shape even? Yeah, definitely. Yes. And

Unknown: 00:27:46

I want to ask you a question just about how do you see sort

Unknown: 00:27:51

of exercise? And what do you think because you're a body

Unknown: 00:27:54

practitioner, you have been for a long time? What do you think

Unknown: 00:27:58

is really good, even in the aging process for people to be

Unknown: 00:28:01

doing? Well, walking is fabulous, if you can, but you

Unknown: 00:28:05

know, people like to dance, and, you know, whatever. It gives you

Unknown: 00:28:09

pleasure and joy and doesn't and doesn't hurt you? Yes, I would

Unknown: 00:28:14

say is great. It's great. And so weightlifting, and all that

Unknown: 00:28:17

stuff is fun. I don't see any problem with people do unless

Unknown: 00:28:21

they're like, pushing past and forcing and thinking their body

Unknown: 00:28:24

should do a certain thing in a certain way every day all the

Unknown: 00:28:28

time. Can we really be present to oh, you know, today, I need

Unknown: 00:28:31

to rest? Yeah. Today, I need to take a leisurely walk. Oh, yeah.

Unknown: 00:28:35

Now I need to really walk because it feels good, you know,

Unknown: 00:28:38

so to respond again, to what's inside, okay to respond to

Unknown: 00:28:42

yourself, need to be in touch with that. And Marian rose and

Unknown: 00:28:46

said, you know, the rosin movement really said once a

Unknown: 00:28:48

week, what we want to do is open the body. So when you do

Unknown: 00:28:51

anything else, you're not lifting weights from here,

Unknown: 00:28:54

right? You're lifting weights from a more open place. Right?

Unknown: 00:28:59

Or whatever, that yeah, you should do a variety of things.

Unknown: 00:29:04

Well, so as your pleasure, pleasure, it's what it sounds

Unknown: 00:29:07

like in the dance. Absolutely. I'm really liking that one. Is

Unknown: 00:29:12

Mary and Rosen still alive, Marjorie. She died in 2012 at

Unknown: 00:29:17

9392.

Unknown: 00:29:20

What a body of work. What else? You know, with your journey with

Unknown: 00:29:24

her studies? Is there anything I know I want to talk to you a

Unknown: 00:29:27

little bit about your embodiment work, too. But what have I

Unknown: 00:29:30

missed with the Rosen method? Are we covered like a nice

Unknown: 00:29:33

general outline? It's a really just juicy area of work. I just

Unknown: 00:29:39

think the power of touch I mean, we're mammals right.

Unknown: 00:29:44

And you know, they've done studies that high licking rat

Unknown: 00:29:47

mothers have calmer babies, right? Yeah. There's more when

Unknown: 00:29:51

there's contact and there's there's a there is that kind of

Unknown: 00:29:55

attentive. I'm really there with you. Yes, kind of contact

Unknown: 00:30:00

cuz that's what's important for us. That's what's really

Unknown: 00:30:04

important. And

Unknown: 00:30:06

you know, we have all kinds of

Unknown: 00:30:10

cultural conditioning that comes in, I mean that we learn, like,

Unknown: 00:30:15

Boys Don't Cry, or they can men can be angry, but women can cry,

Unknown: 00:30:19

but they can't be angry, you know, you know, we have all

Unknown: 00:30:21

these rules and schools and you know, we're talking to we have

Unknown: 00:30:24

to sit all the time.

Unknown: 00:30:27

We can't wiggle? Absolutely. You know, there's always still a lot

Unknown: 00:30:32

of cultural rules. Religion has them, you know, behavior, and

Unknown: 00:30:36

not that some all of them are bad. I'm not saying that. Yes.

Unknown: 00:30:40

But can we be,

Unknown: 00:30:43

you know, so much as you know, wait for women is so much right.

Unknown: 00:30:47

That is

Unknown: 00:30:49

not absolutely. Right. I know. Yeah. I was gonna mention them.

Unknown: 00:30:56

Racism to, you know, one of the things I wanted to do and I

Unknown: 00:31:00

forgot at the beginning was to introduce myself, so people who

Unknown: 00:31:02

are just listening to know I am a white cisgendered older woman,

Unknown: 00:31:08

who's a touch practitioner, that's, that's, that's a lot of

Unknown: 00:31:11

who I am. And that if you don't see me,

Unknown: 00:31:17

you know, that, that you have a sense of who I am and how I'm

Unknown: 00:31:20

seen.

Unknown: 00:31:23

People don't know maybe people have all kinds of assumptions by

Unknown: 00:31:26

my what how I look, or even by those those things, I said, so

Unknown: 00:31:31

all that comes up in the touch work, what has gotten in our way

Unknown: 00:31:36

of being in our hearts of seeing people?

Unknown: 00:31:40

I love Valerie car, do you know her work? I don't think I do.

Unknown: 00:31:43

It's called she's a wrote a book called Revolutionary love. And

Unknown: 00:31:46

I. And she says, I wrote it down because I wanted to say it

Unknown: 00:31:50

right? When you see someone can you say can you feel you are a

Unknown: 00:31:55

part of me? I do not know yet? No.

Unknown: 00:32:00

You are a part of me. I do not yet know. And in a way, that's

Unknown: 00:32:03

how I approach touching people. I don't. Can we get to know each

Unknown: 00:32:06

other? Yes. Yeah. in a deep way. This is wisdom that comes from

Unknown: 00:32:11

knowledge of yourself, you know, is there space for that? And she

Unknown: 00:32:16

said, you know, can we wonder about people? Yeah, yeah, can I

Unknown: 00:32:20

leave with them? Because that's she said, that's the price the

Unknown: 00:32:23

gift in a way in the price of love. It's this work allows me

Unknown: 00:32:27

to care for people. Yeah, like that. It's so comes across, I

Unknown: 00:32:31

heard another friend of mine say last week, it reminds me a

Unknown: 00:32:35

Valerie's quote is

Unknown: 00:32:38

I cannot exist without you. You cannot exist without me. It's

Unknown: 00:32:42

very reciprocal. Yeah. I appreciate everything you're

Unknown: 00:32:47

introducing into our conversation about cultural

Unknown: 00:32:49

conditioning, because so much is invisible to us. But when we

Unknown: 00:32:56

become open to getting curious, I think there was a time that I

Unknown: 00:33:01

even thought, oh, marketing doesn't affect me that much.

Unknown: 00:33:05

Well, yes, it does. Yes, it does. You've just been almost

Unknown: 00:33:09

like so

Unknown: 00:33:11

sheepishly conditioned that you think it doesn't, but that's not

Unknown: 00:33:16

the ways that you've adopted or the it's a huge took on other

Unknown: 00:33:20

people's thoughts and ideas of who you were supposed to be. And

Unknown: 00:33:23

then, you know, you get to this point in life, and you're just

Unknown: 00:33:26

you're, you know, we all have inclinations, even when we're

Unknown: 00:33:29

younger, to like, this is not for me, this is not for me, but

Unknown: 00:33:32

it's really dense and thick to move through. So just the

Unknown: 00:33:36

conversation of, let's just say what it is, and how we're

Unknown: 00:33:41

affected by it, and then work from that point, no judgment,

Unknown: 00:33:44

no, just awareness. Yeah. And I feel that you know, what, what?

Unknown: 00:33:48

I don't know about you. I don't you know, I don't wear makeup.

Unknown: 00:33:50

And I put lipstick on once, you know, when I was in junior high,

Unknown: 00:33:53

and it was like, Oh, my God, I don't I can't stand the feeling

Unknown: 00:33:56

that Yeah, like that. So I never did that.

Unknown: 00:34:01

Yes, like that. Yeah. So we don't, you know, get to trust

Unknown: 00:34:05

that we supposed to look a certain way to fit in. We want

Unknown: 00:34:08

to belong, we do. So Valerie Carr also says Can we choose to

Unknown: 00:34:12

fight for and with others? Yeah. So she says that it's an

Unknown: 00:34:16

orientation towards life that is personal, but also political or

Unknown: 00:34:20

collective? Yeah. Because we live we we don't just, we're not

Unknown: 00:34:24

just individuals and Marian rose and said that too. She said, One

Unknown: 00:34:27

time she was intensive, and there the whole room, people

Unknown: 00:34:29

were crying and she said, emotions are great, but that's

Unknown: 00:34:33

not the end. What are we going to do with what the awareness

Unknown: 00:34:38

that we have? What how are we going to manifest that in our

Unknown: 00:34:41

relationships in the world? We are? How do we stay in our

Unknown: 00:34:45

bodies what feels right or not? Right? You know, that is huge

Unknown: 00:34:50

reason for embodiment. Yes, yes.

Unknown: 00:34:54

I want to ask you just circle back to get your

Unknown: 00:34:59

thoughts

Unknown: 00:35:00

As on

Unknown: 00:35:01

women and our bodies and all that we've been taking on other

Unknown: 00:35:06

people's ideas, the shame that we take on the not enoughness

Unknown: 00:35:09

the not. And I recently read a book, I'm forgetting the name,

Unknown: 00:35:13

but it's by these identical twin sister sisters, Lexi and Lindsey

Unknown: 00:35:17

chi. Do you know that work? Yeah. Yeah, I really love it. I

Unknown: 00:35:21

love just the premise of it. But that often we're so often we're

Unknown: 00:35:26

manipulating what our bodies what we think they should look

Unknown: 00:35:30

like, for somebody else. It's not really another great book

Unknown: 00:35:34

called My body is not an apology.

Unknown: 00:35:37

That's a really a great book, because she talks about how to

Unknown: 00:35:40

love your body. So that's what embodiment can do. So I have

Unknown: 00:35:44

clients who don't like their bodies, but when they're

Unknown: 00:35:45

actually feeling inside their bodies. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:35:49

They don't have that experience so much. It's like, sometimes

Unknown: 00:35:53

you do, like, don't touch that big butt or something, you know,

Unknown: 00:35:56

but yeah, but also they can start to feel how good it is

Unknown: 00:36:01

just to be in in their own body, then, oh, it's not about how it

Unknown: 00:36:07

looks. Sometimes I think we should get rid of mirrors, you

Unknown: 00:36:10

know? Absolutely. I don't disagree with that. Yeah. Right.

Unknown: 00:36:15

Because there's a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure on

Unknown: 00:36:18

women,

Unknown: 00:36:20

culturally, to look a certain way.

Unknown: 00:36:23

And to, you know, I always thought, you know, ties for men,

Unknown: 00:36:27

keeping them from feeling their body and high heels for women

Unknown: 00:36:30

keeping dealing with ground. So yeah, what is that? What is

Unknown: 00:36:35

that, that we do to not be in connection with our bodies? And

Unknown: 00:36:40

especially in the white western European culture? Yeah. Yeah,

Unknown: 00:36:44

thanks. Thanks for those.

Unknown: 00:36:47

Yeah, just examples in what I tune into more and more every

Unknown: 00:36:51

day, is whatever it is, in our world is our choice. And so if

Unknown: 00:36:57

we can be aware

Unknown: 00:37:00

that we do have

Unknown: 00:37:02

that choice of how we speak to ourselves, how we choose choose,

Unknown: 00:37:07

or not choose to take time to be with ourselves to any of these

Unknown: 00:37:12

things. And that someone else doesn't get to say, I mean, we

Unknown: 00:37:15

are living in a very prescriptive society, you know,

Unknown: 00:37:18

I starting this business, and it's like, oh, you should do

Unknown: 00:37:21

these 1020 30 things to make it a success. But if I distill it

Unknown: 00:37:27

down to what's right, for me, it's going to look completely

Unknown: 00:37:30

different. And I, you know, you take bits and pieces, but I like

Unknown: 00:37:34

this, this idea of the answers are within you. And yeah, and

Unknown: 00:37:40

there's a lot like we talked about pressure from outside,

Unknown: 00:37:43

right, yeah. It's just the way our institutions are what I

Unknown: 00:37:46

learned in school and what I didn't learn in school who has

Unknown: 00:37:48

control over that information.

Unknown: 00:37:52

And, you know, just like the Black Lives Matter movement,

Unknown: 00:37:55

saying, you know,

Unknown: 00:37:56

I matter my body might who I am matters, is really been hard for

Unknown: 00:38:01

people, white people, because, you know, yeah, I matter to

Unknown: 00:38:04

Yeah, people say that. However, I didn't go through 400 years of

Unknown: 00:38:08

slavery. I didn't matter at all. Yeah, like, it didn't have that

Unknown: 00:38:13

genetic experience. And so there's something really

Unknown: 00:38:17

important to know that yeah, I have I have choice. And I don't

Unknown: 00:38:20

have choice. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I thought of that

Unknown: 00:38:23

when I said that, you know, so there's institutional forces.

Unknown: 00:38:28

And so it's important to be aware of our history to be aware

Unknown: 00:38:31

of where I stand, like, financially class, even, you

Unknown: 00:38:36

know, how much wealth I have or privilege I have, yeah, there

Unknown: 00:38:41

are these, you know, power and privilege circles that you can

Unknown: 00:38:45

put, you know, what, what, where am I? You know, in terms of,

Unknown: 00:38:48

yes, where I fall in being

Unknown: 00:38:51

educated, you know, where's my power, but where and where don't

Unknown: 00:38:54

want to have power? We all have that. Yeah, it's good to look

Unknown: 00:38:57

at. It is good. Yeah. What does it feel like in your body? To

Unknown: 00:39:03

that my neighbor might not have health insurance? Yes, yes. I

Unknown: 00:39:07

haven't. And they don't, is that okay? No, it's like, there's

Unknown: 00:39:11

something that my mentors that I've been working with for a

Unknown: 00:39:15

while talk about essential goodness, that we have the

Unknown: 00:39:19

ability to feel, oh, yeah, I care about people.

Unknown: 00:39:25

And to keep remembering that and to come to that, that's, that's

Unknown: 00:39:28

an embodied knowing what's important to me.

Unknown: 00:39:34

Where do I actually literally want to put my body

Unknown: 00:39:37

take a stand in a way or where I put my energy? So the healing

Unknown: 00:39:42

that I do inside helps me.

Unknown: 00:39:45

So that inside outside, just like we talked about at the

Unknown: 00:39:48

beginning, what's outside goes inside. So when I have a sense

Unknown: 00:39:51

of myself, what can I bring forth in the world who I am. You

Unknown: 00:39:55

don't have to be famous. I don't have to, you know, I don't know

Unknown: 00:39:59

whatever.

Unknown: 00:40:00

We're going to write a book, but I am really committed to that.

Unknown: 00:40:04

Being who I am like that in the world bringing that into the

Unknown: 00:40:07

world. It's a very spiritual thing. Really? Yeah, it is.

Unknown: 00:40:12

It's such a gift. I mean, when when I asked you, if the Rosen

Unknown: 00:40:17

method is far reaching, it's you said that there are not so many

Unknown: 00:40:22

practitioners in the world, would you say?

Unknown: 00:40:26

There's, there's there's an institute Rosen Institute in

Unknown: 00:40:31

that, yeah, it's not a huge number. And I think part of it

Unknown: 00:40:33

is, it's asking us to do our own work. So when we are with

Unknown: 00:40:38

people, yeah.

Unknown: 00:40:40

We can really be with whatever arises, and I have to do my own

Unknown: 00:40:44

work. And I don't think

Unknown: 00:40:48

it comes

Unknown: 00:40:50

until you're older.

Unknown: 00:40:52

In a certain way. Yeah. In your 20s, you're more out you're

Unknown: 00:40:56

exploring, you know, it's like the inner the inner mean, I

Unknown: 00:40:59

think it could come. I mean, I think if we had had a different

Unknown: 00:41:02

society, maybe it would come more, but I think takes a while.

Unknown: 00:41:06

Yeah, to do your own healing to be able to really be with people

Unknown: 00:41:10

in this way.

Unknown: 00:41:12

Yeah, yeah. And even, you know, how, research shows that

Unknown: 00:41:17

developmentally, you know, you reach developmentally 2627. For

Unknown: 00:41:22

men, it can be even a little bit later. Because I often think

Unknown: 00:41:25

about that, like, oh,

Unknown: 00:41:28

will consciousness rise? And younger populations early? I

Unknown: 00:41:31

think it is, actually. Yeah. And I think part of it is, is

Unknown: 00:41:35

because of this, the larger container, because people are

Unknown: 00:41:39

saying,

Unknown: 00:41:41

you know, like this LGBTQ, you know, gay marriage, you know,

Unknown: 00:41:46

because everybody, people and the people are out and people,

Unknown: 00:41:50

almost everybody knows someone who's gay, they work with them,

Unknown: 00:41:52

or

Unknown: 00:41:54

their parents, you know, at the same school. So there's,

Unknown: 00:41:57

there's, if we can, and I think integration is also helped that

Unknown: 00:42:00

to a certain degree that we have just more experience with people

Unknown: 00:42:03

who are different than us, or who we haven't known. I live in

Unknown: 00:42:06

a neighborhood with lots of we have a lot of Somali immigrants

Unknown: 00:42:09

here. And I live in a neighborhood with lots of Somali

Unknown: 00:42:11

people. Yeah, so I get, and that was out the other night at

Unknown: 00:42:14

Minnehaha. Fall. It was a beautiful spring evening. And

Unknown: 00:42:17

there were people in saris and people playing. I mean, they're

Unknown: 00:42:19

just people of all races and kids running around playing with

Unknown: 00:42:23

each other. It was so sweet. That is, it is multicultural.

Unknown: 00:42:28

Yes. Space. Yeah. And people are great. I lived as Yeah. And I

Unknown: 00:42:35

watched my kids and how they're experiencing life, and we live

Unknown: 00:42:40

right outside of a big city as well. is,

Unknown: 00:42:44

you know, they, they're exposed to just a lot of difference of

Unknown: 00:42:50

expression thought and so almost like when a couple of them have

Unknown: 00:42:56

gone to university, it's been like a little more insular. And

Unknown: 00:43:00

not as,

Unknown: 00:43:02

you know, maybe in thought and academics. But yeah, it's a

Unknown: 00:43:06

different time. And, and they're not afraid to say, Hey, you, you

Unknown: 00:43:10

said that the wrong way, are you and it's wonderful, because it

Unknown: 00:43:13

is we are moving into that time of just more acceptance. I'm

Unknown: 00:43:17

just in conversations like these just

Unknown: 00:43:21

sort of bring ideas to more people. It's exponential. So I

Unknown: 00:43:28

don't know if you want to finish, Marjorie, with anything

Unknown: 00:43:30

we haven't touched upon yet. So I'll ask you that before we

Unknown: 00:43:34

finish up. I think the only other thing that I didn't say

Unknown: 00:43:37

is, you know, to really that non judgmental piece for ourselves,

Unknown: 00:43:42

that what we did to survive something

Unknown: 00:43:46

we shouldn't ever judge. Yeah. And that actually, we should can

Unknown: 00:43:49

we receive it in that kind, loving way? It's like, oh, I had

Unknown: 00:43:52

to hold I had to hold

Unknown: 00:43:56

in order to get through something. And our bodies offer

Unknown: 00:43:59

us that gift in a way. Yeah. But then they say, you know, like,

Unknown: 00:44:03

that person is just like, I can't do this anymore. There's

Unknown: 00:44:06

some at some point, it says knocks on our door and says,

Unknown: 00:44:09

Hell, yes. Right. Yes. And so that's why people come, I think,

Unknown: 00:44:14

to me is that they've tried many things.

Unknown: 00:44:17

And so this idea of listening to what needs Yeah, is a really

Unknown: 00:44:23

different approach than trying to fix it and do something,

Unknown: 00:44:25

right. And then and then and to say, Okay, I'm going to really

Unknown: 00:44:31

listen now and not judge you and not try to force you to be

Unknown: 00:44:35

different to receive, oh, your pain, or your sadness, like your

Unknown: 00:44:39

hip

Unknown: 00:44:41

and say, oh, yeah, that's what you needed to feel sad. And can

Unknown: 00:44:49

it be safe enough and Okay, enough and have, you know, a

Unknown: 00:44:52

supportive environment to explore maybe even what's

Unknown: 00:44:55

underneath that?

Unknown: 00:44:57

That something about that

Unknown: 00:45:00

really honoring those survival mechanisms, but also knowing

Unknown: 00:45:04

that

Unknown: 00:45:05

there's a way that our bodies can process that. Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:45:09

And then it takes time. Sometimes Sometimes we have to

Unknown: 00:45:12

titrate we have to do little bits at a time. We can't just do

Unknown: 00:45:15

it fell swoop. It's kind of like breathing someone. Like, yeah. I

Unknown: 00:45:20

don't grieve somewhat all you know what, at one point, I might

Unknown: 00:45:23

have a memory of my grandmother. Yeah. And I'll feel sad again.

Unknown: 00:45:27

Yeah, I know. So true. I entered a church the other day. And it's

Unknown: 00:45:31

like, my dad had most recently died, but just the memories of

Unknown: 00:45:34

my mom, you know, who passed away a while ago. And I like

Unknown: 00:45:39

that you're, that's kind of how we're kind of finishing up

Unknown: 00:45:44

because reminds me.

Unknown: 00:45:48

She'll know which sister it is, if I say this, but I think she

Unknown: 00:45:52

was having back pain. And I had asked a question, like, I wonder

Unknown: 00:45:55

what it's here to tell you. And I don't think that we've been

Unknown: 00:45:59

cultured to ask that question first. And so

Unknown: 00:46:03

but I think it's a great place to start. And like you're

Unknown: 00:46:06

saying, without judgment, almost with reverence. Like, it might

Unknown: 00:46:10

be painful, but how have you protected me? Thank you. And I'm

Unknown: 00:46:14

so curious about what what's here for me?

Unknown: 00:46:17

Yeah, I don't want I don't want to, you know, go to the doctor.

Unknown: 00:46:20

Make sure it's not something structural or Yeah, right.

Unknown: 00:46:25

Exactly. Yes. Another way in and yeah, yeah. Can I experience

Unknown: 00:46:30

something different? What? Yeah. What? What was it? Like, before

Unknown: 00:46:34

I had to do that? I don't know. You know, whatever arises from

Unknown: 00:46:38

your own wisdom and experience. Yeah. I like them to attend the

Unknown: 00:46:42

wound. Yes. And you bring up a good just point of, it's, it's

Unknown: 00:46:49

multi dimensional. It's i That's the way when I went through my

Unknown: 00:46:54

healing journey. I kind of like, I was curious, I tried

Unknown: 00:46:57

acupuncture. I tried Reiki I had never done it, you know, and

Unknown: 00:47:01

it's such a gift to go to a healer like yourself, if that's

Unknown: 00:47:07

possible. Where can the listeners find you? I think you

Unknown: 00:47:11

have a website, a website. And there's I teach sometimes the

Unknown: 00:47:15

Rosen method, open center, just based in New York, but we teach

Unknown: 00:47:20

anywhere, okay. And they're in Minnesota, we're offering an

Unknown: 00:47:23

introductory workshop to both the movement and the bodywork in

Unknown: 00:47:27

September, and we've got some students here. And so we're

Unknown: 00:47:31

offering some other kinds of trainings. Okay, but who want to

Unknown: 00:47:35

study it? Yeah, probably an intensive, November here.

Unknown: 00:47:40

Beautiful. Yeah, it's for personal growth or for

Unknown: 00:47:43

professional growth. It's not you don't have to become a

Unknown: 00:47:45

practitioner, you can just be for your own experience. And,

Unknown: 00:47:51

yeah, gorgeous. Yeah. Building and there are others. There are

Unknown: 00:47:54

other centers around the world. So the Rosen Institute has a

Unknown: 00:47:57

list of them. Okay. There's, there's a couple more in the

Unknown: 00:48:00

United States. Yeah, that's great. We'll put all the

Unknown: 00:48:04

information in the show notes of the episode.

Unknown: 00:48:09

I want to thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom,

Unknown: 00:48:13

your knowledge and your body of work with us, Marjorie, it's

Unknown: 00:48:16

been a real pleasure to sit with you. Yeah, it's been really fun.

Unknown: 00:48:20

I'm surprised I'm we're relaxing.

Unknown: 00:48:24

I love that. Okay, I want to say thanks to the listeners. Thanks

Unknown: 00:48:27

for being here. And we'll see you next time.

Unknown: 00:48:34

Thanks for listening to this episode of mystical sisterhood.

Unknown: 00:48:37

If you love what you heard, please visit Apple podcast and

Unknown: 00:48:40

subscribe and leave a review and share with a friend if you're

Unknown: 00:48:43

called to do so. To learn more about my one on one coaching

Unknown: 00:48:46

programs, or join the mystical sisterhood membership, visit

Unknown: 00:48:50

Maureen spielman.com or mystical sisterhood.com Thanks so much.

Unknown: 00:48:55

I'll see you in the next episode.